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wellcraft
Member

USA
1246 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  13:56:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is a good subtitute for teak?


JR


1983 Mako 224 with twin 115 Mariners under the knife.
1982 Boston Whaler 15 super sport with 70 Johnson

Annie2
Member

USA
2092 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  14:16:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use African Mahogany. Looks at least as good but 1/4 the price...

bc

Bob Carpenter
Maine

1969 Boston Whaler 13' (Annie3 1/2)

Built Annie2 and Annie3 which can be seen in The Project pages

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wellcraft
Member

USA
1246 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  14:43:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just read somewhere in the net that some one was using mahogany, could that be use to cover the floor of the boat?


JR


1983 Mako 224 with twin 115 Mariners under the knife.
1982 Boston Whaler 15 super sport with 70 Johnson

Edited by - wellcraft on 08/07/2007 14:44:22
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wellcraft
Member

USA
1246 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  14:49:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW were is the best place to check prices and what should be the best 1/4 or 3/8 thickness?


JR


1983 Mako 224 with twin 115 Mariners under the knife.
1982 Boston Whaler 15 super sport with 70 Johnson
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warthog5
Wart

14547 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  15:06:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ipe is a substitute for Teak and it's cheaper.

I like Mahogany, but I wouldn't use it on a floor. Not exposed to the elements anyway.
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classic73mako
Member

USA
1219 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  15:09:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My vote is for Starboard. If you use it there is no more sanding and oiling - forever.

1973 22 CC Milford, CT USA
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wellcraft
Member

USA
1246 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  15:23:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Warthog, does the IPE looks like teak, were can I get some info and pricing?

classic73mako, I replaced all the teak with starboard. I'm just searching and drooling for a teak floor. I allways like the teak floor http://www.classicmako.com/projects/king/king3.htm


JR


1983 Mako 224 with twin 115 Mariners under the knife.
1982 Boston Whaler 15 super sport with 70 Johnson
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warthog5
Wart

14547 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  15:31:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You will bust your ass walking on Starboard. It's slippery when wet.

Some thing's are good when they do that, but not a deck.

Google: Ipe It's used a bunch now on deck's on houses.

Gary used it in that Shamrock, but he said he would have made the boards thicker. This helps with warping. [Min of 5/8in thick]
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wellcraft
Member

USA
1246 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  15:39:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just found some supplier in Atlanta http://ipedeckingsource.com/ipelumberprice.htm

Do you have pics of the shamrock.


JR


1983 Mako 224 with twin 115 Mariners under the knife.
1982 Boston Whaler 15 super sport with 70 Johnson
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Flying Squirrel
Member

USA
525 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  16:23:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know that these folks carry ipe as well.

http://www.peachstatelumber.com/aboutus.htm

I have not worked with this stuff much, but it is very dense, and can be a pain to work in small dimensions. Water spotting is pretty bad, too. The density makes it really hard to restore the dark color like teak, which is much more open grained and accepts oil and two part finishes better than ipe. I'm running some tests in my back yard on some iroko (sp?) wood right now. It starts out kind of yellow, but weathers to a very nice silver, and it works very easily. The iroko is also carried by peach state, and is very reasonable compared to teak. I have no affiliation to peach state, they just happen to be in my neck of the woods.


2003 Sea Hunt 232 Triton
1976 Mako 20 - Sold
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tspenn1
Member

USA
240 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  18:21:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I use Mohogany, almost all the older Boston Whalers were all mohogany. I've been using almost exclusively on the boats I rehab and customers I do BW interiors. I am now using it on my 72 -22' Mako, see pics below. The only teak I'm keeping is the foot steps because I do believe for high traffic areas teak will hold up better to abuse and weather.

I generally pick through the lumber when I buy mahogany because most of it is quite dark, but you can find lots of much lighter pieces if you look. When these are finished they come pretty close to teak in color. The darker stuff finishes a much more deeper red and I don't really like that look on a boat exterior. Its look great in interior cabins though! I'll some pics of some finished stuff this weekend.

TS




TS Penn
Whitehouse Station
New Jersey
1972 22'Mako
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wellcraft
Member

USA
1246 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  19:41:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That looks real real nice. I like the color of the teak without varnish or oil, I also like the teak when it gets kind of gray, like this one http://www.classicmako.com/projects/king/king3.htm . BTW do you know what is the black thing they use between each piece of lumber (silicone)?

Flying Squirrel thanks for the link. How far from Augusta GA is peach state? Do you have some pics of the actual ipe? I read that is kind of hard to work with, this is some info I found.

TOOLS

Carbide tipped saw blades with fewer teeth (16 teeth on 7-1/4" blades) stay cooler, reduce friction when cutting, and stay sharper longer. When using a miter box saw, we recommend 10" or 12" saws with roughly 24 teeth on 10" blades and 32 teeth on 12" blades. Click here for more information.

Drilling Ipe can be a challenge with improper drill bits. High speed Steel tends to fatigue quickly which causes breaking and tend to dull faster. Titanium Nitride coated drill bits initially perform well, but as the coating wears so does performance. Cobalt alloy drill bits are the most effective and longest lasting when drilling into Ipe. When drilling, periodically lift the bit out of the hole to remove shavings.

Board benders such as the BoWrench are highly effective in straightening crooked boards. These types of tools are typically self locking and can speed up production as another person is not needed to hold a board while another fastens.





JR


1983 Mako 224 with twin 115 Mariners under the knife.
1982 Boston Whaler 15 super sport with 70 Johnson
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warthog5
Wart

14547 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2007 :  20:25:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
The only teak I'm keeping is the foot steps because I do believe for high traffic areas teak will hold up better to abuse and weather.


I agree. I like the color of mahogany much better. It has that deep rich color to it. Anything that doesn't have foot traffic it would be mahogany or Spanish Ceder. [that's what my flag poles are made of and i defy you to tell the difference.

But then I want the finish slick as a babies a$$ and I want no maintenance.
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Flying Squirrel
Member

USA
525 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2007 :  15:45:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Peach State Lumber is in Kennesaw, just north of Marietta, and about 5 miles or so west of interstate 75. I've talked to a couple of deck crews about using ipe, and the general concensus is that they can't stand working with the stuff. That wood has been known to eat whole saws, not just blades... Of course, if you do use it for a boat deck, you won't have to ask the ladies to take off their heeled shoes!

The black stuff in between the teak in the deck photos you linked is polysulfide caulk. It can be miserable to work with, because it stains just about everything it touches (gelcoat, the wood you're caulking, etc). I've seen folks go so far as to tape the seams before caulking, so the overflow can be cut and peeled up with the tape. And then there's the maintenance.

Teak decks are classy as hell, and there is no better non-skid than a well maintained teak deck, but there's a reason almost nobody does them anymore. I like to fish more than I like to clean decks, so it's gonna be fiberglass for me!


2003 Sea Hunt 232 Triton
1976 Mako 20 - Sold
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jonathangolds
Member

354 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2007 :  16:23:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you're open to plastic, look around on line. There are a number of plastic teak substitutes to give you that look with out all the upkeep. Plasteak might be one of them. I've never seen them in person and I'm sure real wood is much nicer but it may be a more reasonable option for you. If you go that route, I bet a lot of people would like to read about it. It's a great look but the expense and upkeep just put it out of reach for me.

1973 23' SeaCraft Tsunami w/ 300hp Etec
Norwalk, CT
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MakoShako
Member

USA
1026 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2007 :  16:55:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ipedepot.com is another source ... although most lumber yards can order it or may have it in stock since its used for high end decking. One problem with ordering it on line is that it is so heavy. For a deck they have to ship it in an 18 wheeler! Jeez. What I did is order a couple of 5/4 x 6 deck boards and have been playing around with it and have made some replacement parts (wheel bezel lift, foot pads, trim etc) and so far, while it is dense, it mills excellently. Almost no sanding required. I even rounded over some of the pieces with a semi dull carbide tip router bit and it did fine ... although the dust is very fine and you are not supposed to breath it.

Wart, How thick did Gary make his boards on the Shamrock?

Now, if I could just get my boat to look like this.


72' Mako 22'
NoNeck, VA
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warthog5
Wart

14547 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2007 :  09:23:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That cockpit is Ausome!

If I'm not mistaking, I believe he milled it to 3/8in thick?

He had some warping problems.
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bigbender
Member

100 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2007 :  09:49:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You guys are on target about ipe being very dense, making it hard to work with. It also does not accept stains/oil very well due to it's density. It will, however, last forever and ever but will also fade out. The dock of the house I am currently renting is decked in ipe, it is absolutely beautiful right after a rain when it's still wet, but by the time it dries it looses the color and becomes more gray.
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tspenn1
Member

USA
240 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2007 :  21:44:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

A side note on Ipe. I don't know all that much about it. Never worked with it. But there was quite a big deal about it in Asbury Park, NJ when they wanted to use ipe to replace the boardwalk. It has been used on other Jersey town boardwalks and is considered the best wood if you want that boardwalk to last 50 years. It does fade to a gray color after time with no treatment. But it is like a rock, does not split and splinter even with the ravages a boardwalk endures, heat, weather, salt water, winter, freezing, constant traffic. I believe they used it when they replaced the Atlantic City boardwalk about 12 years ago. The big spit fight in Asbury is that it comes from the rain forest.

The ultimately voted for Ipe. A plastic boardwalk on the Jersey shore is just not right the way I see it.

TS

TS Penn
Whitehouse Station
New Jersey
1972 22'Mako
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mrapp
Member

USA
522 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2007 :  22:00:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They also are planing on using it in the Ocean City NJ, boardwalk. But they are also fighting the tree hugers...

LBI NJ
84 25'4" completed
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GEMaffair
Member

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2007 :  22:43:47  Show Profile  Visit GEMaffair's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is a very interesting topic for me.

I am rebuilding my 285 and the gunnel caps are made of teak. About 12 inches wide and 5/8 thick. I am not opposed to replacing with teak, but if I can find a nice substitute that does not require as much maintenance, that would suit me fine. I have replaced most other things with starboard and want to have some "personality" on the boat. Replacing the gunnel caps with starboard does not excite me, so I am looking for alternatives.

Plasteak

from what I can tell is rubber, or plastic, but either way, not quite thick enough for my application. Although, I may use it on the forward deck between the settee's for color.

IPE
Can you stain it? How long will it last?
You can only get it in 6" widths so I would need two and then what do I do with the gap? Can you get it in tongue and groove?

Other Engineered woods
Most of what I find is made in six inch widths for decks and gives me the same problems as above.

Would love to hear other ideas and see some pictures of gunnel caps other than teak ! Even starboard!

THANKS!
Michael



Largo, Florida
1988 285 DC
2008 Suzuki 4 Stroke 300HP
Boat Name = "Religious Fin Addict"

Picture slideshow of restoration at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ReligiousFinAddict/StartToSplashInLessThanOneYear

Read how my installation was from Diamond Suzuki of New Smyrna Beach at www.diamondsuzuki.net

Check out www.MarineSupplyDock.com - if you need something you can't find, email me, we can get it.
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makojoe
Member

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2007 :  12:43:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wellcraft! Sounds like you are looking to cover your exterior decks.I covered the interior floors on my Post sport fish with teak and holly.This comes in plywood form with real teak and holly veneer, when installed it looks like the real thing at a fraction of the wheight and cost.I finished mine with 6 coats of interlux satin varnish.When I was searching for material I also came across exterior teak plywood with the black poly joints. It comes in 8x4 x1/2 or 3/4.I purchased my supplies from M L Condon Lumber in White Plains NY 914 946 4111.Hope this helps, Joe K.

Joe Kovacs, Darien CT and Punta Gorda Isles FL.1987 Mako 231 w.Yamaha 250.
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tspenn1
Member

USA
240 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2007 :  20:29:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

To GEMayfair:

How bad are the teak gunnel caps/footsteps. Teak is a very tough wood and those steps are pretty heavy duty. Even if its badley faded and worn, it can be brought back to life. If it is cracked it can be glued up and clamped solid with no sign of the repair. Unless the wood is rotted which is highly unlikey with the caps, and no pieces are literally broken off and lost, you can make it look great again.

Here's some pics of a Gunnel footstep and rod holder frames I refurbished for MRapp and a good example of how what looks real bad, may not be so bad after all. The step was was dead gray, cracked and dried out bad when I got it. I wish I had taken a before pic!

Nothing like original parts on a classic!


TS











TS Penn
Whitehouse Station
New Jersey
1972 22'Mako
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warthog5
Wart

14547 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2007 :  03:22:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
what do I do with the gap?


You mill a grove and backfill it with epoxy mixed with Graphite.
the grove only goes 1/2 the thickness of the board.
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GEMaffair
Member

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2007 :  08:59:38  Show Profile  Visit GEMaffair's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mine are cracked length wise twice almost fromone end to the other. Weathered and gray of course. and some chunks are misssing. I will have to relook at them and see if they are repairable. I am assuming you can walk me through any repair if I decide to go that way?

Michael



Largo, Florida
1988 285 DC
2008 Suzuki 4 Stroke 300HP
Boat Name = "Religious Fin Addict"

Picture slideshow of restoration at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ReligiousFinAddict/StartToSplashInLessThanOneYear

Read how my installation was from Diamond Suzuki of New Smyrna Beach at www.diamondsuzuki.net

Check out www.MarineSupplyDock.com - if you need something you can't find, email me, we can get it.
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tspenn1
Member

USA
240 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2007 :  20:21:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I'd be happy to. the splits not so bad if the wood hasn't swollen up and the cracked parts don't clamp up true. Chunks missing, bad deal. May not be worth it. Post a few good pics let's see what you got. Worse case you have a fairly complete template to fabricate a new step from.

Either way I'll be glad to help out as I'm sure the myriad of knowledgeable, salt breathing, gluttons for punishment, who actually enjoy working on boats.

TS

TS Penn
Whitehouse Station
New Jersey
1972 22'Mako
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