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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  18:22:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys

So back in the Spring/Early Summer I purchased a nicely preserved/Restored 1988 171. It's Powered by a 2004 Mercury 115 4-Stroke. Yes I realize the boat is tail heavy.

Since the day I purchased the boat running under power it shows a list to port. If someone is standing on the port side while running under power it's pretty bad. So much so I have to stand to the starboard while driving the boat to get it close to level again.

One thing to make mention of is the boat is equipped with "smart tabs". http://www.nauticusinc.com/smart_tabs.htm

Today I disconnected them to see how the boat would preform without them. No doubt I got plenty of bow rise on acceleration and some porpoising however the boat tracked noticeably straighter. It dose still have some list to Port.

Ill be pulling the boat I figured mid November depending on the fishing. At that time I'm strongly considering removal of the tabs altogether.

Suggestions and comments are greatly welcomed.

Thanks!

Tommy D

Is there a procedure to properly trim or attempt to trim a boat out?


1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY

dahlbebop
Member

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  19:01:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I doubt the tabs had anything to do with the list unless they were not installed correctly. Do you have a picture of the transom with the tabs installed? Were they adjusted to the same adjustment hole on both sides? Nauticus tabs should help the boat track better,not make it worse. They will usually help a list somewhat also,not make it worse. What size actuators/tabs are they?



Budd Dahl
1990 ChrisCraft - See my rebuild/refurb thread here.:)http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=483913
1990 254 Chris Craft SeaHawk
1988 22'GradyWhite Seafarer (gone)
1976 19'Mako (gone)
1977 15'Mako (gone)

Edited by - dahlbebop on 10/22/2011 19:04:47
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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2011 :  19:19:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the reply.

Without a doubt the boat tracked straighter today with them disconnected.

If I recall correctly mine do not have holes to set and adjustment angle. Rather its slotted in a moon shape for an infanate adjustment.

She's in the water so I can't provide photos. I can tell you the actuators have a blue identification strap on them.

If I recall correctly the tabs were set at different angles of attack. I figured I was dragging the port side which contributed to the listing.

1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY

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dahlbebop
Member

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  02:01:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If they are set at different angles it is definately going to cause issues with traacking and listing.Basically, if one tab is set to a higher or lower starting position than the other tab, you are putting more lift on one side compared to the other.

The tabs actually should take any wonder from starboard to port out of the equation. Its just one of the nice things about having self adjusting tabs.

They are very specific though, and have to be sized right and set-up correctly to work correctly. If they aren't, they simply won't work as they should. Can't really give you more advise until I see how they are mounted. They should always be adjusted evenly though. Your tabs should have about 4 or 5 positions that the actuator can be moved to. This is just for fine tuning to different boats attitudes. More bow down or less etc.

When you get a chance, take a pic of them and how they are mounted. If they are already off the boat,take a picture of the tabs/actuator so I can see how yours adjust.

Are yours stainless or are they the SX composite tabs?

More than likely, if they were sized correctly you will have 60 lb actuators. Either ST1290-60 or SX9510-60



Budd Dahl
1990 ChrisCraft - See my rebuild/refurb thread here.:)http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=483913
1990 254 Chris Craft SeaHawk
1988 22'GradyWhite Seafarer (gone)
1976 19'Mako (gone)
1977 15'Mako (gone)

Edited by - dahlbebop on 10/23/2011 02:08:14
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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  12:25:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ill get the photos when I pull her next month. Till then all I have is this (I hope this works! I think if you go straight to webshots you can see a much larger photo of the boat/tabs) )

[URL=http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2309582920104533319EKmbCL][/URL]

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/49561/2309582920104533319S600x600Q85.jpg

http://image87.webshots.com/187/5/82/92/2309582920104533319EKmbCL_fs.jpg


Mine are the stainless ones, with a healthy growth of algae on them.

=)

The boat does not "wonder from starboard to port ". What it does do is immediately list "x" degrees to port no matter where the throttle is and the boat is under power. If my fishing partner stands with me on the right side of the boat, we can correct it. If we were to both stand on the left side of the boat.... it would be not good!

Tommy D

1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY


Edited by - TommyD11730 on 10/23/2011 12:27:19
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radioman
Member

USA
551 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  18:47:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, that looks like a LOT of "down angle" on your tabs...I didn't think they were supposed to drop that much.(look like dive brakes on an old SBD Dauntless! Sorry, just couldn't resist saying that!)

The ones that I have on my 211 only travel about half that much and I've never had the need to run them "full down"...

Glen Campbell, Pa.
Mako 211 w/175 Opti Pro XS
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n/a
deleted

1178 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  19:23:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think a key part of the diagnosis here is you disconnected them, try removing the actual flap of the tab and see if there is still a list? If so then you know it has nothing to do with the tabs, per say. They may be making it worse if one is adjusted higher/lower then the other but if they are off and there is still any list then there are further problems. JMO
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Sunburnt
Member

USA
769 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  19:50:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would get rid of the smart tabs and put bennetts on, that would solve all the problems

Steve
Naples,FL.
1978 Mako 21 1994 200hp Johnson
Last Project: http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=0.6&TOPIC_ID=41768#310470


[

Edited by - Sunburnt on 10/23/2011 19:51:17
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boatingmatt
Member

133 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  20:51:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MY MAKO 228 LISTS TO PORT ALL THE TIME...SOME WEIGHT BALANCING will help but when i have a passenger the list is exagerated...it bothered me to no end...i tried everything with no help....i finally put on some trim tabs (mine are boat levelers which are a cheaper version of bennetts i think)...the list didnt go away but i can compensate by adjusting the tabs and ride level.also trimming up the oatboard helps..i believe that it is just prop torque combined with weight that lists the boat...get some tabs and forget it ...enjoy...thats what i did
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dahlbebop
Member

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2011 :  23:29:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looking at your pics, they look to be installed correctly. Make sure the tabs are mounted atleast 3 to 4 inches in from the sides of the boat. Your tabs have adjustment slots where the tabs meet the actuators. If one is positioned in a different hole compared to the other side, it can cause a list.

That being said, I'm thinking your zinc tab above your prop might be the culprit. It adjusts for prop torque and they are very sensitive. If not adjusted properly it will make your boat pull and list. Next time your out take the right size wrench and adjust it and see if it helps.

Like already said, Since you removed them and ran it already and still had a list, the tabs probably are not the issue.They may just be making it worse. Here is a picture of where the trim zinc tab is for the prop torque. Should have a bolt head on the bottom of it for adjusting.





Budd Dahl
1990 ChrisCraft - See my rebuild/refurb thread here.:)http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=483913
1990 254 Chris Craft SeaHawk
1988 22'GradyWhite Seafarer (gone)
1976 19'Mako (gone)
1977 15'Mako (gone)

Edited by - dahlbebop on 10/23/2011 23:32:10
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Noname Dave
Member

USA
611 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2011 :  06:17:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sunburnt

I would get rid of the smart tabs and put bennetts on, that would solve all the problems



BINGO!

1990 261 T/200 SWS II - Gone
1988 201 Yamaha 150
Jacksonville, FL
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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2011 :  12:24:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys

Had the boat out last night for the first full trip with no tabs. Rather they are tied up and disconnected.

Again for sure boat tracks damn near perfectly straight. Also top speed is increased as is speed at just about any throttle setting. That said there are some down sides.

Takes a bit more to plane off, thats not a huge deal.

Boat does wallow some port/starboard before it does get on plane. That can be bothersome no doubt.

What I think I will do is contact the manufacture. See what they have to say/suggest. My thinking is they are adjusted too low and uneven.

Other types of tabs are out as Im just not willing to spend the cash.

Tommy D

1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY

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dahlbebop
Member

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2011 :  02:12:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TommyD11730

Guys

Had the boat out last night for the first full trip with no tabs. Rather they are tied up and disconnected.

Again for sure boat tracks damn near perfectly straight. Also top speed is increased as is speed at just about any throttle setting. That said there are some down sides.

Takes a bit more to plane off, thats not a huge deal.

Boat does wallow some port/starboard before it does get on plane. That can be bothersome no doubt.

What I think I will do is contact the manufacture. See what they have to say/suggest. My thinking is they are adjusted too low and uneven.

Other types of tabs are out as Im just not willing to spend the cash.

Tommy D




They are suppose to be 25 degrees downward and about a half inch above the bottom of the hull so when they raise up they are even or a little above the bottom of the hull at planing speed. Also in-set from the sides from where the angle of the hull starts. Does not matter if they are mounted across a strake.

Nauticus will need a picture of the install also to insure they are mounted properly and in the right locations. You can email them or call them. Best if you can take a picture from the back showing both tabs. These tabs work great if properly installed. The stainless ones you are running if sized right when bought should be the ST1290-60 for your size boat and HP rating. They will measure 12"X9" and will have the 60 pound actuators.

You might want to check to see if one of the actuators is sticking. I know on the early models they had issues with the some of the actuators sticking. If they are sticking, they will probably replace them for free.Good luck.





Budd Dahl
1990 ChrisCraft - See my rebuild/refurb thread here.:)http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=483913
1990 254 Chris Craft SeaHawk
1988 22'GradyWhite Seafarer (gone)
1976 19'Mako (gone)
1977 15'Mako (gone)
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Noname Dave
Member

USA
611 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2011 :  05:53:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For a cheaper fix you can also try a fin mounted on the outboard, like a Doel-fin.
My brother has a 21' Steigercraft wiht a 140 Suzuki that has a moderate deadrise like your 17. After he bought the boat he took the Doel-fin off the engine and didn't really notice a difference until he had four people on the boat. It took awhile to get on plane.

Actually he's up there in East Moriches. That's where I'm originally from. I think I might have one laying around someplace up there if you're interested.

1990 261 T/200 SWS II - Gone
1988 201 Yamaha 150
Jacksonville, FL
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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2011 :  19:42:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I pulled the boat today, man I hated to do it but the past few fishing trips have been duds.

Anyways their is no doubt that the Port side tab is adjusted lower <more drag> then the starboard side. When checking to see if the struts required about the same amount of force to move the tabs slipped on their adjustment brackets!

Now I can see why they ditched their slotted style that I have for drilled brackets.

Ill see if I can retrofit them with new brackets, adjust both sides the same and start fresh next season.

1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY

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dahlbebop
Member

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  00:02:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TommyD11730

Well I pulled the boat today, man I hated to do it but the past few fishing trips have been duds.

Anyways their is no doubt that the Port side tab is adjusted lower <more drag> then the starboard side. When checking to see if the struts required about the same amount of force to move the tabs slipped on their adjustment brackets!

Now I can see why they ditched their slotted style that I have for drilled brackets.

Ill see if I can retrofit them with new brackets, adjust both sides the same and start fresh next season.



Sounds as if I was right. If you contact nauticus, they will hook you up with anything you need. Even if you didn't purchase them, they will help you. Get them set-up so they work properly and you will be very happy. Good luck.




Budd Dahl
1990 ChrisCraft - See my rebuild/refurb thread here.:)http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=483913
1990 254 Chris Craft SeaHawk
1988 22'GradyWhite Seafarer (gone)
1976 19'Mako (gone)
1977 15'Mako (gone)
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michigan dave
Peacekeeper

USA
7723 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  07:55:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TommyD11730

Well I pulled the boat today, man I hated to do it but the past few fishing trips have been duds.

Anyways their is no doubt that the Port side tab is adjusted lower <more drag> then the starboard side. When checking to see if the struts required about the same amount of force to move the tabs slipped on their adjustment brackets!

Now I can see why they ditched their slotted style that I have for drilled brackets.

Ill see if I can retrofit them with new brackets, adjust both sides the same and start fresh next season.




If I am reading this correctly, the port side tab is already adjusted down further than the starboard side. This was done perhaps by the previous owner to help correct the problem you still have. By dropping the port side tab down, you should see the port side raise to compensate for the list.

Tab goes down, that side of the boat goes up.......

So either lower the tab some more, or have someone take a close look at your hull to see whey it has the list.....

dave

[/URL]

1974 23 inboard Gusto
1979m21 225johnson "blue dolphin" bought off this board and restored
with everyone's help!!Gone but not Forgotten....
1979 20 Mako 115 Suzuki gone
1977 19 Mako 115 Johnson gone
1976 23 Mako twin 140 Johnsons gone
1983 224 with closed transom and bracket
And 130 SOB (some other boats)
S.Haven MI>Columbus OH
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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  08:41:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Dave your reading it correctly.

I understand your logic however if having the port side adjusted lower to help with the list.... why was the list gone with the tabs disconnected? The boat only lists when the tabs are connected.

Oh and the port side is at its absolute lowest point. You couldnt make it any lower even if you wanted to.

1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY


Edited by - TommyD11730 on 11/06/2011 08:44:10
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michigan dave
Peacekeeper

USA
7723 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  09:07:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TommyD11730

Yes Dave your reading it correctly.

I understand your logic however if having the port side adjusted lower to help with the list.... why was the list gone with the tabs disconnected? The boat only lists when the tabs are connected.

Oh and the port side is at its absolute lowest point. You couldnt make it any lower even if you wanted to.




Could the starboard side be bound up and not moving freely after you get up on plane???

[/URL]

1974 23 inboard Gusto
1979m21 225johnson "blue dolphin" bought off this board and restored
with everyone's help!!Gone but not Forgotten....
1979 20 Mako 115 Suzuki gone
1977 19 Mako 115 Johnson gone
1976 23 Mako twin 140 Johnsons gone
1983 224 with closed transom and bracket
And 130 SOB (some other boats)
S.Haven MI>Columbus OH
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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  16:37:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave your last post got me to thinking.

Anything is better then cleaning the seasons grunge off the boat so I decided to do a thorough tab and actuator inspection. Here is what I found.

The Port side actuator requires less pressure to retract. <I tightened the actuators to the tabs as they slipped yesterday> Once retracted it will not descend on it's own! To make 100% sure it was not the piano hinge binding I disconnected the actuator from the tab.

So I have got to wonder if at times the port side would not descend. If so, and the starboard created lift, as it was descended that would account for the list to port.

Make sense?

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dahlbebop
Member

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  19:23:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TommyD11730

Dave your last post got me to thinking.

Anything is better then cleaning the seasons grunge off the boat so I decided to do a thorough tab and actuator inspection. Here is what I found.

The Port side actuator requires less pressure to retract. <I tightened the actuators to the tabs as they slipped yesterday> Once retracted it will not descend on it's own! To make 100% sure it was not the piano hinge binding I disconnected the actuator from the tab.

So I have got to wonder if at times the port side would not descend. If so, and the starboard created lift, as it was descended that would account for the list to port.

Make sense?





Could have sworn I mentioned checking for sticking actuators.
Anyway, you have found your problem. On early models they had actuators that were replaced by upgraded models. Don't know if yours are that old but because you have the slotted mounts I would guess they are old. Call nauticus and see if they will send you some replacements. Replace both sides!



Budd Dahl
1990 ChrisCraft - See my rebuild/refurb thread here.:)http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=483913
1990 254 Chris Craft SeaHawk
1988 22'GradyWhite Seafarer (gone)
1976 19'Mako (gone)
1977 15'Mako (gone)
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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  22:05:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ya might have rabbit ya might!

I shot them an email. Ill report back their reply.

1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY

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TommyD11730
Member

USA
141 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  18:53:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exchanged a few e-mails with the guys @ nauticus. While I'm not getting replacement actuators for free, they did deeply discount me a pair. They also looked @ the photo and let me know I have the actuators installed upside down.

I think I'm going to try and apply some kind of marine bottom paint on them. They were covered in algae and barnicals by the end of the season. Not so sure which product to use on them however.

Also the screws that attach the tabs to the transom.... any favorite marine sealer to use on them before re-installing?

1988 Mako 171
Mercury 4-Stroke 115
East Islip, NY

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dahlbebop
Member

USA
1260 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  22:26:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TommyD11730

Exchanged a few e-mails with the guys @ nauticus. While I'm not getting replacement actuators for free, they did deeply discount me a pair. They also looked @ the photo and let me know I have the actuators installed upside down.

I think I'm going to try and apply some kind of marine bottom paint on them. They were covered in algae and barnicals by the end of the season. Not so sure which product to use on them however.

Also the screws that attach the tabs to the transom.... any favorite marine sealer to use on them before re-installing?



Lol, didn't even notice that. Great, sounds like there taking care of you. Even in fresh water, mine get algae on them. If your running in salt you should definately put some anodes on them to prevent corrosion. But a good cleaning is fair maintenance to keep them operating correctly and smoth. Not sure bottom paint would stay on them. I would use 5200 on the screws into the transom. Good luck



Budd Dahl
1990 ChrisCraft - See my rebuild/refurb thread here.:)http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=483913
1990 254 Chris Craft SeaHawk
1988 22'GradyWhite Seafarer (gone)
1976 19'Mako (gone)
1977 15'Mako (gone)
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